I've always thought the argument that Damon makes in Rounders is bogus, don't you? I simply don't buy that skill is the deciding factor in events such as the WSOP. Are there any dissenters on this matter? :dunno:
Does poker involve more luck, or skill?
- Thread starter Bloodshot Scott
- Start date
Skill, Ive been a poker player for over ten years, and it is a huge factor.
If you really know what your doing you can count cards, which is pure skill.
If you really know what your doing you can count cards, which is pure skill.
It's about 50/50. Luck dictates the cards that you get but the best hand doesn't necessarily mean the winning hand. You have to be able to tell if you can get someone off of a good hand. You also need to know how to get someone to keep feeding the pot when you have a monster. Luck can take you a long way in a tournament, but in the end you see a lot of familiar faces at final tables.
The Grasshopper
was here
Phil Ivey and players of his caliber are excellent at keeping track of the percentages it seems. That means they can read their luck (somewhat) as opposed to the other players luck. Add the other card reading factors and definitely a lot of skill is involved.
On the other hand Jamie Gold hitting those runners a few years back was pure luck. He made a deal with the devil I believe.
On the other hand Jamie Gold hitting those runners a few years back was pure luck. He made a deal with the devil I believe.
HE1FiNEARTiST
Banned
ask Kenny
it's both, luck with skill, knowing when to lay down a big hand and knowing when to call when people are bluffing, it's about head games too, playing the person and not the cards, there's more to it than just luck
:dito:
Just because a certain element of a situation would seem to be out of your control in no way means it's more luck.
Poker involves among other skills, the innate ability to reconcile risk versus the calculated odds consistently enough to where the unpredictability of how the cards fall almost don't matter.
It's skill if you take a long-term perspective. Which means over many, many hands. In any given tournament (including the WSOP) or playing session, luck predominates, but averaged out over hundreds of tournaments/sessions, that is where skill factors in. If you think about it in terms of a single hand, luck is perhaps 95% of what determines the winner of the hand. Maybe 5% is skill. However, given that luck should even out in the long run, meaning that over time you should be as lucky as often as you are unlucky, then that 5% skill factor is the only thing that matters.
But you also need to consider the rake that the house takes out of pots, or in the case of tournaments, the fee you pay that does not go into the prize pool. So to win at poker, it isn't good enough to just have a skill advantage over the other players. You need to have enough of a skill advantage to overcome both the other players and the rake. Rakeback or bonuses offered by poker sites can help with that, if you play online.
But you also need to consider the rake that the house takes out of pots, or in the case of tournaments, the fee you pay that does not go into the prize pool. So to win at poker, it isn't good enough to just have a skill advantage over the other players. You need to have enough of a skill advantage to overcome both the other players and the rake. Rakeback or bonuses offered by poker sites can help with that, if you play online.
Its a little luck, but more skill. The worlds best players are not consistantly lucky. You can blame the cards if you get a bad beat, but the option was yours to hold or fold. Calculating hand odds, reading other players mannerisms and playing style requires more than luck.
On the internet, the free or low money tables have more luck involved because players hold high card hands, knowing they can't lose much of their own $$$$$. Lesser risks are taken on the big money tables.
On the internet, the free or low money tables have more luck involved because players hold high card hands, knowing they can't lose much of their own $$$$$. Lesser risks are taken on the big money tables.
maildude
Postal Paranoiac
Luck is the first force in any poker game. Some games require luck more than others. Games like Texas Hold 'Em require luck first, and nerve or guessing your opponent second. A lot of poker involves paying attention to your opponents' betting habits. Other games like Blackjack involve less luck and more probability computations. Any poker game of any kind, though, revolves mostly on the simple luck of the draw.
It depends on the time scale it's measured in. Over years and years the person with more skill will come out on top as luck evens out for everybody. On a per hand basis or over the course of a few of them it's almost entirely luck. A good portion of the people here could have a good chance to beat the best in the world a good amount of times over a few hands. Even over a full nights game it's still pretty luck dependent. Over a long period of time skill becomes more of a factor. Still it's freaking poker, luck will always be a gigantic part of it.
In the long run, a more skilled player will have more money than a lucky player.
Definitely more skill involved in hold em poker than luck...if you want to be successful long term anyway IMHO. The skill of knowing your outs...calculating your odds of catching one of them....being able to read your opponents...even having the ability to create "false tells" in yourself to throw off your opponents at just the right time.
Luck???!! To me luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity...if you prepare good...you will have good "luck"
Luck???!! To me luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity...if you prepare good...you will have good "luck"
Rey C.
Racing is life... anything else is just waiting.
Like others have said, the cards you get are based purely on luck/chance. But only someone with fairly high skills (and math abilities) is going to be able to place bets that are based on the highest probability of winning. I think that's why some of the best options traders are also (successful) poker players. Both endeavors involve calculating the odds of winning the most while losing the least. And in both endeavors, you can win (vs. others) even if you win less than 50% of the time. You just have to make sure that your winning bets are bigger than your losing bets. And that'll be determined by how well you understand the laws of probability: skill.
The cards that you get are based off of how they are shuffled, sorted, and tossed. From there it is based off of how well you trick other players into thinking you have something or nothing at all.
Same with any type of gambling game. It all comes down to factors of shuffling, rolling, spinning, whether hands are dry or enough moisture to cause a slip/skip, height, weight and all those factors combined will determined the outcome.
I can't even imagine how luck can play into it. It will either happen or it won't. All based off of the physical factors from beginning to end. Because if a factor such as luck exists I might as well stay in bed and one day luck will toss a million dollars my way if my name should pop up in the luck-o-day name generator.
Same with any type of gambling game. It all comes down to factors of shuffling, rolling, spinning, whether hands are dry or enough moisture to cause a slip/skip, height, weight and all those factors combined will determined the outcome.
I can't even imagine how luck can play into it. It will either happen or it won't. All based off of the physical factors from beginning to end. Because if a factor such as luck exists I might as well stay in bed and one day luck will toss a million dollars my way if my name should pop up in the luck-o-day name generator.
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