Worst (WTF were they thinking) Monents, Events and Bad Ideas in Comic Book History

[Aces&Jacks]

We all know that comics pretty much suck these days. So much so that we fondly look back on those great moments in comics history to remind us of what used to be. But how did we get to this sad point? It's been a slow decline to mediocrity for comics. This is my list of the events, ideas and/or trends that has gotten comics (Marvel, DC) to the sorry state they are in now.

--- Universe Reboots - Starting with Crisis on Infinite Earths, DC has muddled their Entire universe in a pool of existing and then non-existing multi-verses, retconned events, and changing histories and origins. Marvel had their reboot attempt with Heroes Reborn, which was a total failure. The 2 of the worst cases of changing history deserve their own special mention.

--- One More Day - Marvels attempt to erase the Marriage of Peter Parker and Mary Jane Watson. Also, one of the ways of taking back Peter Parker revealing to the world that he is Spider-Man. Also...

--- Sins Past - A storyline where the geniuses at Marvel wanted us to believe that before Gwen Stacy was ****** by the Green Goblin, She had an affair with Norman Osborn and gave birth to 2 ********.

--- Let's make it really real and have some women get ***** - DC - Identity Crisis - the **** and ****** of Sue Dibny.

--- We can do better than that - Marvel - Ms. Marvel is seduced and ***** by Marcus, who we find out is her *** who went Back in time to impregnate his ****** to give birth to himself. Pause here while I go and wash myself.

--- Green Lantern Hitler - In Emerald Twilight and Zero Hour (an attempt to fix the problems created from the Crisis reboot), we watched Green Lantern turn into Parallax, destroy OA and commit mass genocide of the Green Lantern Corps.

--- All hail Norman Osborn - How does a 3rd rate villain control the entire security ****** of the US government, get some of the most powerful and dangerous villains to bow to his every whim, lead a cabal of villains whose power set makes him look like an ant in a herd of elephants, and defeats not only the greatest team of heroes in the Marvel universe, but also an entire city of Asgardian immortals? If you really want to know try reading the over-bloated, over-hyped and totally disappointing events called Dark Reign and Siege.

--- Christians believe that death is not the end - ...and so do Comic Book writers. How many characters are going to "DIE" only to somehow be miraculously resurrected? It happens so often, it's no longer a shock to anyone when someone gets ****** in a comic. You could create a whole new universe with all the heroes and villains that have returned from the dead. Hey, maybe that should be the next reboot.

--- Speaking of death - How are some of these Villains still around? I know you have to keep great characters, but take someone like the Joker. WTF moment - Beats the original Robin to death with a crowbar. WTF moment - shoots Chief Gordon's wife pointblank in the head. He paralises Barbara Gordan. Every time he breaks out of Arkham he violently ***** numerous people. Hell, he ***** numerous people in Arkham. How has no one put him down...permanently?

--- Onslaught = Bad X-Men - Mutants beware, Charles Xavier is evil incarnate. Talk about one of the most convoluted arcs ever. This is where the X-Men really to began to decline. Come on! Charles Xavier? The Man whose entire existence is to ensure that Mutants and Homo Sapiens live in peace. Ri-god-damn-diculous.

I cou;d go on and on, but I'll let you give your WTF moments, events and generally bad ideas.

 

[Mr. Numb3rs]

Re: Worst (WTF were they thinking) Monents, Events and Bad Ideas in Comic Book Histor

i put this in another thread, but for me it never gets old...
1. FRANKENCASTLE. it was so bad, they never gave it a proper resolution, just tried to act like it never happened...

2. liefeld being allowed to draw cap

3. amalgam comics.

 

[darkwarrior3007]

Re: Worst (WTF were they thinking) Monents, Events and Bad Ideas in Comic Book Histor

The Spider-Man Clone saga single-handedly stopped me from reading Marvel Comics. It wasn't until the Ultimate line, when I started reading Marvel again.

Also, the Joker did not beat the original Robin (Dick Grayson) to death with a crowbar. He beat the second Robin (Jason Todd) to death, however Jason Todd is now alive again.

 

[D-rock]

Re: Worst (WTF were they thinking) Monents, Events and Bad Ideas in Comic Book Histor

Along with the lists above which contain some of my most hated moments:

Don't forget House of M.

There was the Death of Jean Grey...again, you know because those comic book readers just aren't able to cope with married characters or just stable relationships for that matter. (Also given how she is my second favorite Marvel character I always wishing she will come back and kick Frost's ass whom I've never liked.)

I also have no idea how Liefeld has managed to find work all this time.

While were talking about recent things how about adding the concept of "Red Hulk" to the list. WTF...if I'm the comic book editor for Marvel and somebody even comes up to me with an idea that stupid I'm going to fire him on the spot, unless I think he wants to get fired and then I'm going to assign him to the most crappy line in the brand.

As far as the Joker's "Joker Immunity" is concerned I always wondered why in the setting, even if people like Batman didn't want to **** him, why didn't they just construct some single cell prison deep in the moon or something that dispensed food and medical care to him automatically just so he can't escape or be near anybody again. They have the technology, and if anybody is that dangerous to require it, it's the Joker.

 

[Mr. Numb3rs]

Re: Worst (WTF were they thinking) Monents, Events and Bad Ideas in Comic Book Histor

Along with the lists above which contain some of my most hated moments:

Don't forget House of M.

There was the Death of Jean Grey...again, you know because those comic book readers just aren't able to cope with married characters or just stable relationships for that matter. (Also given how she is my second favorite Marvel character I always wishing she will come back and kick Frost's ass whom I've never liked.)

I also have no idea how Liefeld has managed to find work all this time.

While were talking about recent things how about adding the concept of "Red Hulk" to the list. WTF...if I'm the comic book editor for Marvel and somebody even comes up to me with an idea that stupid I'm going to fire him on the spot, unless I think he wants to get fired and then I'm going to assign him to the most crappy line in the brand.

As far as the Joker's "Joker Immunity" is concerned I always wondered why in the setting, even if people like Batman didn't want to **** him, why didn't they just construct some single cell prison deep in the moon or something that dispensed food and medical care to him automatically just so he can't escape or be near anybody again. They have the technology, and if anybody is that dangerous to require it, it's the Joker.

im not sure how you feel about "hulked out heroes" but if you reread it on wiki, it is the most ridiculous thing ever... and on a side note, if you have or can find the first print of "greatest joker stories ever told" from 88, thers one of my favorite joker comics in it. hes a total pain in the ass, as usual, locking bm in a shark tank at one point. the end is absolute gold...

 

[Mr. Numb3rs]

Re: Worst (WTF were they thinking) Monents, Events and Bad Ideas in Comic Book Histor

and dont forget aces&jacks, norman was also responsible for every single event in parkers life, from goblins "death" all the way up to his fake parents return, and the not quite death of aunt may. when bagley was doing the art through issue 375, there was a HUGE buildup to 400, and an even greater letdown after.

 

[Aces&Jacks]

Re: Worst (WTF were they thinking) Monents, Events and Bad Ideas in Comic Book Histor

and dont forget aces&jacks, norman was also responsible for every single event in parkers life, from goblins "death" all the way up to his fake parents return, and the not quite death of aunt may. when bagley was doing the art through issue 375, there was a HUGE buildup to 400, and an even greater letdown after.

Bringing Norman Osborn back from the dead was a WTF moment itself. His death was such a classic moment in comic history and Marvel just f'****d that up. There was no need to bring him back because you still had Harry and his crazy attempts at being the Green Goblin, plus Hobgoblin and Demon Goblin, all interchangeable characters.

I'm surprised they haven't brought Gwen Stacy back....oh wait, the clone. Never mind!

 

[Aces&Jacks]

Re: Worst (WTF were they thinking) Monents, Events and Bad Ideas in Comic Book Histor

Don't forget House of M.

How did Scarlet Witch become so powerful? Has there ever been an explanation for that?

 

[Mr. Numb3rs]

Re: Worst (WTF were they thinking) Monents, Events and Bad Ideas in Comic Book Histor

How did Scarlet Witch become so powerful? Has there ever been an explanation for that?

as far as i know, they just implied that she had the potential all along, but never displayed it till she went batty. if you ask me, its almost as lame of an explanation as superman using "super ********" to convince people hes just a mild mannered reporter

 

[~~whimsy~~]

Re: Worst (WTF were they thinking) Monents, Events and Bad Ideas in Comic Book Histor

The Liefeld Cap is a good one. Gave me a good chuckle. I'd liked to know how he still around to begin with.

 

[Aces&Jacks]

Re: Worst (WTF were they thinking) Monents, Events and Bad Ideas in Comic Book Histor

The Liefeld Cap is a good one. Gave me a good chuckle. I'd liked to know how he still around to begin with.

Rob Liefeld asked to apologize for Captain America.

The facts are these:

Rob Liefeld was sitting at Chicago Comic-Con, greeting fans and doing sketches.

Comics reader Ryan Coons approached Liefeld’s table, said he was a fan of Captain America and asked for an apology for Liefeld’s participation in Marvel Comics’ Heroes Reborn.

Liefeld blew Coons off.

Later Coons’ purchased a copy of Stan Lee’s and John Buscema’s book, How to Draw Comics the Marvel Comics Way, from 1978, and dropped it on Liefeld’s desk.

 

[D-rock]

Re: Worst (WTF were they thinking) Monents, Events and Bad Ideas in Comic Book Histor

How did Scarlet Witch become so powerful? Has there ever been an explanation for that?

That wasn't even what bothered me so much as the whole ass pull of an attempt reduce the mutant population. Maybe they thought the puny minds of all us simple comic book fans everywhere just couldn't take all those mutants anymore.

(Also similar to just how they they don't think people can cope with a superhero having a sane, normal, steady, and loving relationship with their significant other. It's funny, but when I was a young *** I never thought less of Spider-man or any other hero because they were married, thought I couldn't relate to them, or thought it made them less interesting to read. Back then he was still awesome as he always was [until they really screwed him up]. Sure, he started out as a dork, but he also grew up, sort of like how people often do in real life. It's not like they even need to do that to pander to little **** whom it won't bother anyhow.)

I don't know how I forgot to add this in, but the Marvel Civil War is up there also. It goes to show how some intricate real life social-political situations don't belong in comic books and shouldn't be put into them when suspension of disbelief has been used for a good reason for decades with it. It ended up stupid. There were too many cooks in the kitchen doing there own things with it without oversight. It was another mega-crossover event when that's the last things comics need anymore. Oh, do people even know the pro-registration side was the one we were supposed to side with according to the powers that be at Marvel...whoops. It's only redeeming quality was over the series it might have been one of Caps best and cool moments of his character in that the ideals he follows were even more important the the country he's named after. I would have liked it even more if he would have stayed dead (which didn't happen and we all knew wouldn't happen). That lasted about only two freaking years.

 

[Aces&Jacks]

Re: Worst (WTF were they thinking) Monents, Events and Bad Ideas in Comic Book Histor

That wasn't even what bothered me so much as the whole ass pull of an attempt reduce the mutant population. Maybe they thought the puny minds of all us simple comic book fans everywhere just couldn't take all those mutants anymore.

I actually enjoyed the concept Decimation. The idea of a small group of survivors trying to save an entire race of people on the verge of extinction was quite compelling. They just didn't offer a good explanation of 1) why that particular 98 mutants survived and 2) why Hope is the messiah. It also. like Civil War, dragged on for way too long. It did give us my favorite X-men title ever X-***** v3 (2008).

 

[Mr. Numb3rs]

Re: Worst (WTF were they thinking) Monents, Events and Bad Ideas in Comic Book Histor

I actually enjoyed the concept Decimation. The idea of a small group of survivors trying to save an entire race of people on the verge of extinction was quite compelling. They just didn't offer a good explanation of 1) why that particular 98 mutants survived and 2) why Hope is the messiah. It also. like Civil War, dragged on for way too long. It did give us my favorite X-men title ever X-***** v3 (2008).

i TOTALLY agree about the 98 mutants... also, my main problem with civil war was the "return" of thor. if not for that, i would not have bought a single issue from the crossover. as soon as he ****** goliath, i continued reading out of sheer morbid curiosity, since such an act would cause him to lose hammer lifting rights...

 

[~~whimsy~~]

Re: Worst (WTF were they thinking) Monents, Events and Bad Ideas in Comic Book Histor

Rob Liefeld asked to apologize for Captain America.

The facts are these:

Rob Liefeld was sitting at Chicago Comic-Con, greeting fans and doing sketches.

Comics reader Ryan Coons approached Liefeld’s table, said he was a fan of Captain America and asked for an apology for Liefeld’s participation in Marvel Comics’ Heroes Reborn.

Liefeld blew Coons off.

Later Coons’ purchased a copy of Stan Lee’s and John Buscema’s book, How to Draw Comics the Marvel Comics Way, from 1978, and dropped it on Liefeld’s desk.

I remember getting Wizard and about around 2004 or so Liefeld came back with same old 1990s concepts (I forget now' an old Image comic) and I'm looking at his illustrations seeing he can't draw worth a ****! I can see a few little problems here and there, but when I see his artwork it is absolutely horrible! The body proportions are so damn M. C. Escher like I feel like I can walk up a dozen style of stairs on a fucked up stunted forearm somehow leading to a oversize, fucked up upper torso! I can't stand disproportionate anatomy illustrations. Liefeld should just become a stick figure artist on the back alleys between shitty artist avenue and tracers cul-de-sac.

There are very few comic artists I **** on, however, this guy is one i will gladly voice my discontent on.

 

[Mr. Numb3rs]

Re: Worst (WTF were they thinking) Monents, Events and Bad Ideas in Comic Book Histor

I remember getting Wizard and about around 2004 or so Liefeld came back with same old 1990s concepts (I forget now' an old Image comic) and I'm looking at his illustrations seeing he can't draw worth a ****! I can see a few little problems here and there, but when I see his artwork it is absolutely horrible! The body proportions are so damn M. C. Escher like I feel like I can walk up a dozen style of stairs on a fucked up stunted forearm somehow leading to a oversize, fucked up upper torso! I can't stand disproportionate anatomy illustrations. Liefeld should just become a stick figure artist on the back alleys between shitty artist avenue and tracers cul-de-sac.

There are very few comic artists I **** on, however, this guy is one i will gladly voice my discontent on.

i totally agree. everyone is drawn like a midget juggernaut on hgh... but he still makes more money than me though

 

[~~whimsy~~]

Re: Worst (WTF were they thinking) Monents, Events and Bad Ideas in Comic Book Histor

i totally agree. everyone is drawn like a midget juggernaut on hgh... but he still makes more money than me though

Not just him. A lot of folks make a lot of money. I don't know how but they do. However he's probably not as well off as he was after the seven formed Image. He just scraping by off the few scraps he can get work on via his 1990s work. I find a lot of little problems, Michael Turner annoyed me with how he drew foreheads and eyebrows, Frank Quitely annoys me with how he draws faces, I mean little things whatever, I still respect the fact that you do what you do. Liefeld is the biggest pet peeve I have in the industry.

I **** to sound like a common comic fanatic, it is just, how the fuck does this guy still last? I mean it is crazy. Evolve somehow. Get better somehow. Go to a local community college to take anatomy and art classes. WTF ARE YOU THINKING??????? Can you seriously look at your shitty anatomy and say this is worth of being published and sold?

 

[Mr. Numb3rs]

Re: Worst (WTF were they thinking) Monents, Events and Bad Ideas in Comic Book Histor

Not just him. A lot of folks make a lot of money. I don't know how but they do. However he's probably not as well off as he was after the seven formed Image. He just scraping by off the few scraps he can get work on via his 1990s work. I find a lot of little problems, Michael Turner annoyed me with how he drew foreheads and eyebrows, Frank Quitely annoys me with how he draws faces, I mean little things whatever, I still respect the fact that you do what you do. Liefeld is the biggest pet peeve I have in the industry.

I **** to sound like a common comic fanatic, it is just, how the fuck does this guy still last? I mean it is crazy. Evolve somehow. Get better somehow. Go to a local community college to take anatomy and art classes. WTF ARE YOU THINKING??????? Can you seriously look at your shitty anatomy and say this is worth of being published and sold?

in the most flattering way possible, i love you... bagleys run in amazing sm through 362+- was only hurt by his inability to variate faces. they all looked the same... also erik larsen and todd, despite their most impressive resumes- also follow suit.

 

[~~whimsy~~]

Re: Worst (WTF were they thinking) Monents, Events and Bad Ideas in Comic Book Histor

in the most flattering way possible, i love you... bagleys run in amazing sm through 362+- was only hurt by his inability to variate faces. they all looked the same... also erik larsen and todd, despite their most impressive resumes- also follow suit.

Exactly. Every artist has their little peccadillo. That's fine. Especially before the 1990s when comic artists started taking a huge creative take of their own. Remember when Todd McFarlane was threatened to be fired because he made Spider-Man too spaghetti like? Don't get me wrong here, there has been huge revolutionary artists throughout the decades of comics starting back with Will Eisner, Joe Mad, Bill Sienkiewicz, and countless other imaginary artists I can't think of now. In the end there are always little variables here and there. I don't care. What I don't get is a truly despicable artist still remaining because of something he holds on to from now almost thirty fucking years and still finds work! Liefeld is like that high school jock that was the **** back in the day because he had a superstar team to back him. Nowadays seeing that the original seven have departed, fallen away, loosely connected, or done their own thing he is but a lonely lad seeing no light at the end of the tunnel. However someone will come along with a flashlight and shine on him but for a brief moment before the batteries die. He will go away and come back again.

 

[Aces&Jacks]

Re: Worst (WTF were they thinking) Monents, Events and Bad Ideas in Comic Book Histor

Here's something to add to the list...the multi-comic title crossover. There was one point where you couldn't read a complete story without having to buy 4 or 5 different comic titles. There was an entire 3 year period where you couldn't read Amazing Spider-Man without having to read Spectacular Spider-Man, Web of Spider-Man and the Sensational Spider-Man. You couldn't read Batman without also reading Detective Comics, Shadow of the Bat, legend of the Bat and Gotham Knights. It was an industry wide scam to get you to either buy titles which you were not currently buying and/or Trade Paperbacks and Hard Covers which were released a few months later. It's a practice which still exists, but not to the extent it did in the 90's.